Curse

Black Metal · May 12, 2010, 08:57 PM // 20:57

KJ, Regina has 'virtually' said that there will be content. She responded to a post of mine a few weeks ago, where she said that the content was still being worked on and that the 5th yr anniversary wasn't over yet (of course, it's well over now).

Still, I have very little faith in their ability to have any meaningful content, and they've been shown many times to have lied, not lived up to promises, and not inform the community when they wouldn't be able to live up to both their and our expectations (aka quarterly content updates).

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 12, 2010, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

What kind of company is this? Small-time, run-by-family snack bar in a high-school?

Honestly if a game company tells me there's a delay because one guy in their team is sick. I'd highly questioned the company's professionalism and its ability to do ANYTHING productive.

/facepalm.

Want a link? I will get a link for ya... hold on... here it is...

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Live_Team

That is how many people are on the Live Team. Everyone else at Anet is working on Guild Wars 2. Yes they have left only a handful of people to run this game that they aren't really working on.

Black Metal · May 13, 2010, 12:27 AM // 00:27

I count 11 people on the Live Team (plus 2 informal members). So, Ariovist, one of them gets sick and everyone else gets to go home?

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 13, 2010, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Metal

I count 11 people on the Live Team (plus 2 informal members). So, Ariovist, one of them gets sick and everyone else gets to go home?

well, you have 3 QA testers, so that brings it down to 8, then you have 4 which are web/community relations workers, so that brings it down to 4 which can actually work on the content... and the one that got taken out was the lead (which would have to sign off on everything)....

BrettM · May 13, 2010, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

well, you have 3 QA testers, so that brings it down to 8, then you have 4 which are web/community relations workers, so that brings it down to 4 which can actually work on the content... and the one that got taken out was the lead (which would have to sign off on everything)....

Worse than that. I don't think the producer really works on the content. So you actually have three: two designers and one programmer. Any other resources they might need to carry out an idea, such as artists and animators, must be borrowed from the GW2 team -- which is probably like pulling teeth at this point.

Cacheelma · May 13, 2010, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

/facepalm.

Want a link? I will get a link for ya... hold on... here it is...

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Live_Team

That is how many people are on the Live Team. Everyone else at Anet is working on Guild Wars 2. Yes they have left only a handful of people to run this game that they aren't really working on.

I don't give a d*** about how small a developing team is. A bad game made by one guy is still that, A BAD GAME.

I don't go "Oh, so there's only one guy working on this? Ok I'll buy his game out of sympathy despite the fact that it's just bad and cost as much as other games". Sorry, I can't afford such charitable act and that's not really how it works in this world.

So your team is small? Do something good with the team you have. And do it well. Don't try to promise a mountain and deliver a bag of soil. Please.

Skyy High · May 13, 2010, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

I don't give a d*** about how small a developing team is. A bad game made by one guy is still that, A BAD GAME.

I don't go "Oh, so there's only one guy working on this? Ok I'll buy his game out of sympathy despite the fact that it's just bad and cost as much as other games". Sorry, I can't afford such charitable act and that's not really how it works in this world.

Yeah, uh, two problems with that:
1) GW IS NOT A BAD GAME.
2) THEY'RE NOT SELLING YOU ANYTHING.

This is just supposed to be them giving us something to play with while we wait for GW2. Free content getting pushed back because one person on a three-man coding team got sick is NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. If they had completed packed it up when they released GW:EN and just went on to make GW2 with everyone, you still would have gotten your money's worth. This, this War in Kryta thing, and every other content update we've gotten since GW:EN, this is gravy, and it had no effect on your decision to buy the game or not buy the game, so stop acting like you're being gravely misused and that anyone who isn't gleefully ravaging ANet like a rabid wombat is a pinko commie who doesn't "get" capitalism.

Quote:

So your team is small? Do something good with the team you have. And do it well. Don't try to promise a mountain and deliver a bag of soil. Please.

They have, okay? The content that we've gotten from the Live Team has been aces. ZQuests are still fun, if for no other reason than they revive pugging in one area once a day; Dhuum is the most awesome boss fight in the game, regardless of what you think of the increase in difficulty in the area; the little War in Kryta stuff that we've had so far has been incredibly well written and animated, and even genuinely funny in the case of Zinn's Trial. Yeah, it's not gameplay-focused content. I really don't care, it was/is still quality entertainment.

Cacheelma · May 13, 2010, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Yeah, uh, two problems with that:
1) GW IS NOT A BAD GAME.

Did I say it is? *recheck* I didn't. Try re-reading. It was more or less an analogy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

2) THEY'RE NOT SELLING YOU ANYTHING.

They were. And for some other people, they are. And they will be doing so for a long time. You see, I'm not talking about myself here. Please do what I do and stop taking things personally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

This is just supposed to be them giving us something to play with while we wait for GW2. Free content getting pushed back because one person on a three-man coding team got sick is NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. If they had completed packed it up when they released GW:EN and just went on to make GW2 with everyone, you still would have gotten your money's worth. This, this War in Kryta thing, and every other content update we've gotten since GW:EN, this is gravy, and it had no effect on your decision to buy the game or not buy the game, so stop acting like you're being gravely misused and that anyone who isn't gleefully ravaging ANet like a rabid wombat is a pinko commie who doesn't "get" capitalism.

Because they're doing all these things out of sympathy that we'd feel sad because of the lack of content & update in GW, right?

Please. This is just a PR stunt that they failed to finish. You and me both know this is not the first time they failed, either.

And if it takes "the end of the world" for someone to share a thought on a forum, we might as well shut down the internet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

They have, okay? The content that we've gotten from the Live Team has been aces. ZQuests are still fun, if for no other reason than they revive pugging in one area once a day; Dhuum is the most awesome boss fight in the game, regardless of what you think of the increase in difficulty in the area; the little War in Kryta stuff that we've had so far has been incredibly well written and animated, and even genuinely funny in the case of Zinn's Trial. Yeah, it's not gameplay-focused content. I really don't care, it was/is still quality entertainment.

Too bad I don't share your opinion on the matter. But thanks for sharing.

fireflyry · May 13, 2010, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Seems to be a consistently flogged topic.

I agree it's pretty bad sport to make promises regarding new content and not follow through but at the end of the day whining about lack of new content in a non-subscription game, especially a 5 year old game like GW, is akin to complaining about water being wet.

I would welcome new content as much as anyone else but I'd rather not join the "head meet wall" brigade of complainers.

Relying on content releases to justify your motivation to play just seems ridiculously futile and unrealistic.

If your bored you could...you know...play another game that meets your demands for regular new content as opposed to whine on about one which doesn't.

These threads tend to reek of "Want my cake and eat it too!!"

Bob Slydell · May 13, 2010, 06:46 AM // 06:46

I haven't SERIOUSLY played GW probably since sometime in mid to late 2009, and hadn't really checked in on my guildies/friends in a while until just yesterday or so. I had been hearing all about this "War In Kryta" for so long now, here on Guru, the main GW site, Facebook...etc..etc... and kept putting off visiting the "event" in game - I knew well worth a damn I would go in the game and find quests after all this damn advertising. So after a while away I log in and go look around. Nothing. Nothing at all. Looked on offical wiki, here on guru and nothing about quests or any meaningful non waste of time interaction other than some mobs to kill. I basically alt+f4'd and went off playing mw2 or l4d2...

So they bring GW into the light 5 years after it's development with all this marketing online about the War In Kryta for a few mobs. Glad the game actually got this much recognition when it was.. ya know.. developed and released...as an entire game on the date it was of 5 years ago? Nah lets market the game 5 years later that two factions that have been around as long as the game has who opposed each other - finally decide to go to war with each other.

dancing gnome · May 13, 2010, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Seems to be a consistently flogged topic.

I agree it's pretty bad sport to make promises regarding new content and not follow through but at the end of the day whining about lack of new content in a non-subscription game, especially a 5 year old game like GW, is akin to complaining about water being wet.

I would welcome new content as much as anyone else but I'd rather not join the "head meet wall" brigade of complainers.

Relying on content releases to justify your motivation to play just seems ridiculously futile and unrealistic.

If your bored you could...you know...play another game that meets your demands for regular new content as opposed to whine on about one which doesn't.

These threads tend to reek of "Want my cake and eat it too!!"

Most of the people aren't complaining about not getting content when they aren't paying. Most of them are upset that people came back to the game to play content and nothing is really happening.

Content was promised - and is still coming - but it's not here. People are getting frustrated because they reinstalled a game they haven't played in a long time, expecting to play through a few quests or events over a period of a week and then go back to pretending the game doesn't exist.These people are waiting around for the content to actually do something.

They are upset because they were drawn in by a marketing campaign (which capitalised on GW2 info creating a desire for GW1 content) which promised content and so far they have very little to show from it.

Had there been no new content promised (and to a lesser extent, no 4th year anniversay precedent) I think you would find most people couldn't care less.

MithranArkanere · May 13, 2010, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Have you ever seen the version number of GW?
Not many games reach that number.
They do at a lot of things, but the game is so good, that we go through the content like wildfire, devouring it, and then crave for more.
And we never have enough.

Nerel · May 13, 2010, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Have you ever seen the version number of GW?
Not many games reach that number.
They do at a lot of things, but the game is so good, that we go through the content like wildfire, devouring it, and then crave for more.
And we never have enough.

Yeah, but not that many games need three different bug fixes as a result of some trivial content update... imagine what that build number would be without all the emergency fixes they've unleashed in response to an update.

Eragon Zarroc · May 13, 2010, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Have you ever seen the version number of GW?
Not many games reach that number.
They do at a lot of things, but the game is so good, that we go through the content like wildfire, devouring it, and then crave for more.
And we never have enough.

huh, where do you find the version number?

Arduin · May 13, 2010, 07:50 PM // 19:50

F11, bottom left.

Skyy High · May 14, 2010, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Did I say it is? *recheck* I didn't. Try re-reading. It was more or less an analogy.

Quote:

A bad game made by one guy is still that, A BAD GAME.

Newsflash: the Live Team aren't making a game. They're making free add-on content for a game that already exists. They cannot, in any fashion, negatively affect the existing game by adding to it. Therefore, either what you said is pointless because you were talking about the content the Live Team was adding (which isn't a game), or you were talking about GW as a whole, which you said you were not. Therefore, I'm gonna go with "pointless".

Quote:

They were. And for some other people, they are. And they will be doing so for a long time. You see, I'm not talking about myself here. Please do what I do and stop taking things personally.

Which ties into what I just said: the game is what it is. These content additions, or the lack thereof, do not magically reduce the amount of content in the game for some new player just starting out right now. There's still at least a couple hundred hours of content in here for any new player, which is more than enough considering they can get all 4 games for like $25 now. Again, as I said before, anything we get at this point is gravy, and not getting it does not negatively impact the game.

Quote:

Because they're doing all these things out of sympathy that we'd feel sad because of the lack of content & update in GW, right?

Please. This is just a PR stunt that they failed to finish. You and me both know this is not the first time they failed, either.

Um...yeah, I kinda thought that was the entire purpose of the Live Team: to make GW players feel at least a little comforted and happy, so we'd stand the wait until GW2 releases. Can't a company both be concerned that its customers are unhappy, and do something for the PR? The two goals are basically the same.

And, other than the fact that the update's been pushed back yet again (which has been a chronic problem with ANet since Prophecies, let's not kid ourselves), I can't think of an instance of them actually lying to us. Not telling us stuff for an inordinately long time, maybe, but flat out lying? I really don't know where people get that from.

Quote:

And if it takes "the end of the world" for someone to share a thought on a forum, we might as well shut down the internet.

No, but apparently it takes all of a year of slow content for you to call a game company that's given you thousands of hours of entertainment a bunch of lazy, lying bums who expect free handouts from their customers. Seriously, what the hell is with the polemics? You act like this is the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVAR!!!11 that they get us the free content on time, and you act like this WiK thing getting pushed back is suddenly a deal-breaker for GW, as if you're trying to decide whether or not to buy it. Even if you were, GW would still be worth the price of admission, without any WiK stuff at all. So, yeah, I don't get the anger here, I just don't.

Cacheelma · May 14, 2010, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Newsflash: the Live Team aren't making a game. They're making free add-on content for a game that already exists. They cannot, in any fashion, negatively affect the existing game by adding to it. Therefore, either what you said is pointless because you were talking about the content the Live Team was adding (which isn't a game), or you were talking about GW as a whole, which you said you were not. Therefore, I'm gonna go with "pointless".

My point was, you should judge the quality of something based on the quality itself, not the amount of people who work on it. You keep on dragging my analogy into this "live team" BS that I have to say I don't really care about.

Stop it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Which ties into what I just said: the game is what it is. These content additions, or the lack thereof, do not magically reduce the amount of content in the game for some new player just starting out right now. There's still at least a couple hundred hours of content in here for any new player, which is more than enough considering they can get all 4 games for like $25 now. Again, as I said before, anything we get at this point is gravy, and not getting it does not negatively impact the game.

It does, for me at least. We are talking about Anet as a whole here. I don't really care much about GW itself anymore after the whole GWEN and GW2 bean-spilling debacle years ago.

For a company to promise something and deliver something less, a lot less, how are you supposed to trust them to deliver anything productive later on? This is definitely NOT the first time such thing happened, either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Um...yeah, I kinda thought that was the entire purpose of the Live Team: to make GW players feel at least a little comforted and happy, so we'd stand the wait until GW2 releases. Can't a company both be concerned that its customers are unhappy, and do something for the PR? The two goals are basically the same.

I'm not sure if you're acting NAIVE to impress anyone or this is really what you are. But I'm not that impressed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

And, other than the fact that the update's been pushed back yet again (which has been a chronic problem with ANet since Prophecies, let's not kid ourselves), I can't think of an instance of them actually lying to us. Not telling us stuff for an inordinately long time, maybe, but flat out lying? I really don't know where people get that from.

You either forgot or weren't here when Gaile lied about the GWEN and GW2 leaks in that magazine article... what was it called, Inquiry? Enquiry?

And that's just one instance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

No, but apparently it takes all of a year of slow content for you to call a game company that's given you thousands of hours of entertainment a bunch of lazy, lying bums who expect free handouts from their customers. Seriously, what the hell is with the polemics? You act like this is the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVAR!!!11 that they get us the free content on time, and you act like this WiK thing getting pushed back is suddenly a deal-breaker for GW, as if you're trying to decide whether or not to buy it. Even if you were, GW would still be worth the price of admission, without any WiK stuff at all. So, yeah, I don't get the anger here, I just don't.

Nope, it took them one lie to turn me from brown-nosed fanboi into someone who can see the truth. And that happened years ago. See above.

GIVEN? Please. I did PAY for it. And please excuse me if I happen to care about the game I paid for. Or in this case, the company that made the game I paid for.

And I'm not angry here. Not at all. Amused, more like.

wetwillyhip · May 14, 2010, 07:17 AM // 07:17

From a more logical point of view, none of these arguments that shy away from the original topic are valid:

-The anet team is understaffed, give'm a break
-you don't pay for a subscription game, cut some slack (another sympathy fallacy)
-you played your money's worth, its done
-and any others that I've read through this bickering.

...some ppl are more or less feeling/logical about the subject. (if you don't know what i'm talking about go to the MyersBriggs personality test)

In a logical sense, I side with more with the arguments Cacheelma has presented.

If you've been on gws and around gwsguru for a VERY LONG time, you wouldn't be as defensive if you knew the long history of lost statements Anet has buried.

The main logical argument to this discussion that I agree with, regardless of every argument surrounding accountability, it doesn't do any direct redemption:

a company makes a statement of doing something, they don't do it.
Furthermore, they don't communicate always when it would actually help their reputation and hanging players. It makes the matters usually worse.

I'm sorry but if your small team states something and doesn't do it, maybe you should take again a few more steps back in being confident in your abilities vs. delivery.

But the main issue here is accountability and this is nothing new for many of us who have been here quite longer than many who tend to be more defensive.

Simply put, Regina said fifth anniversary content and skill updates should be around the middle of this month. Well, 2 days from now it will be the middle.

Some of us are just too straight forward with these sorta things, oh well. but thats where we all tend to mold to due to a long history...we're tired of it and we've become quite crass.

BrettM · May 14, 2010, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetwillyhip

From a more logical point of view, none of these arguments that shy away from the original topic are valid:

-The anet team is understaffed, give'm a break
-you don't pay for a subscription game, cut some slack (another sympathy fallacy)

What? Here is the OP:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

So the anniversary festivities were standard ones, the War In Kryta thing is a bit of a non-event and the whole skill situation (no idea what to call it anymore) is on hold. Soooo anyway ETA's for actual new stuff?

You are claiming that the size of the staff and the income produced by their work are not pertinent factors to consider and somehow shy away from that original question? ANet is spending money to produce content for which we will pay no extra, but it is illogical to think that this lack of income has any bearing on the amount of money they are willing to spend? It is a fallacy to think that the amount of money spent has an impact on the amount of content that is produced or the speed with which it can be delivered? It is not valid to point out that the delivery estimates of a small team may be more severely impacted by unanticipated events or difficulties?

Pardon me, but I just can't see how this adds up to a "more logical point of view", nor how those points shy away from the original topic.

Missing HB · May 14, 2010, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Well , update can still happen tonight i guess , since one happened once during doublefame week end . However , if nothing happens , we'll have to wait a while for new content ( or even skill update only ) , with dragon festival , then summer coming ( it will be like , sorry we delay the 2 times delayed update because xx went on holidays ) .

Anyway , fingers crossed for tonight , or at least for a skill update , it's not like it will be fun to face only rt/as + 3 healers , SW + 3 healers , 2 war 2 rupt 3 heal ( you can also add bots for those 3 builds , zzzz ) this week end .